THM’s Collector’s Corner With Gregory Selch: Spilling The Beans On Vintage Watches That Didn’t See A Peak
8 min read
In the last episode with vintage watch expert Gregory Selch, we explored how to collect vintage watches and also maintain them. This time we’re here to discuss the vintage watches that haven’t gained popularity yet!
THM: There are the Paul Newman's, which everyone is on the hunt for literally, but tell us about a watch that is maybe not as hyped or has been underrated.
Gregory: I have a brand that I think many people have not discovered, but big collectors have discovered. It's a brand called Movado. Most people know Movado today. It's a company that still exists in America but it's a Swiss company. It was started in Europe a long time ago. In the 1960s, it merged with Zenith and became Zenith, Movado. Movado used a lot of the Zenith movements. They had their own movements and actually Zenith used some of their movements because they had excellent movements as well, but they had a lot of crossovers, but they kept themselves distinct. One of the most interesting things was that when they developed the El Primero in 1969 and released it to the world, it's still famous today, and very sought after, especially vintage El Primeros. They're very expensive and hard to find. Movado released the exact same movement as that, and they released it mostly to the American market. I don't know why, but Zenith wasn't as popular in America as Movado was. The number of models, the quality was the same. The designs were sometimes the same as the Zenith. Sometimes they were different. They even made triple-date moon phase versions of the El Primero movement. Well, Zenith did too. Movado was considered to be more of a style design company with bolder and brighter colours. They were a little less technical and maybe, I guess, industry-oriented, like pilots and things like that. They wanted to be funky and fun, and you can find these watches, in my opinion, maybe for 20% of the price of an equivalent El Primero.
THM: That is an unexpected pick!
Greg: Movado is a very old company. And unfortunately, what happened was that in the 70s, Zenith was bought by the Zenith Corporation, which made TVs and things like that in America, and they shared a name, and they had nothing really to do with each other. They just fell under their umbrella. The Movado name was kind of kicked off at that time, and they went off on their own, and they were bought by an American company who picked up essentially one design, which was called the Museum Watch. Yes. It was an amazing watch, an amazing story, but unfortunately, they just marketed the thing and sold it to death. And I mean by that, they just said, let's make as many as we can, let's make as many different shapes and colors, and we'll just sell this thing like crazy. They didn't sell them for a lot of money, given that they were battery-powered, so they were considered to be less high-end than most.
THM: Interesting! Given an option, putting aside maybe brand value and positioning, what would you consider - an El Primero on a Zenith or an El Primero on a Movado?
Gregory: Well, personally, I love Movado, and I'll tell you why. To begin with they are far more accessible in terms of price. Infact the one I am wearing right now is what we call a panda dial. Now if I wear this on the street, people do think it's a Paul Newman. They don't know how many people were wearing vintage Paul Newmans on the street. Nobody is. It's just too much of an obvious thing. But this watch is actually the same size. And in my opinion, the Paul Newman Daytona has a Valjoux 72, which is a fine movement.
Millions and millions of watches had the Valjoux 72 movement in them, and they're great watches. Only this watch has the El Primero movement in it. It's called a Datron. The date is at the top at 12 instead of at 4, like a Zenith. But to me, this is a much better movement, and it's a very exclusive movement. It's a rare movement from the 1970s. So the Paul Newman original is a manual wind and this is automatic. They had great bracelets. You can find them in all different kinds of conditions. And for me, having something that is truly rare, in my opinion, it's not about the monetary value, because these watches can be extremely rare and not that expensive. There isn't a lot of marketing that goes into something like a Rolex. Rolex is the greatest company, in my opinion, in the world for marketing. Bar none, they do the best marketing. So everybody knows what a Rolex is, and that's great for them for business. But, Rolexes have never been rare, and they never will be rare. They're just a solid, good watch, but that's very well-known.
THM: Now that we’re talking about the Rolex, what about the Rolex Midas, the Jumbo watches by Rolex?
Gregory: Right now, they are rare. I'm sure people know this if they're following the vintage market, they are very popular and sought after right now. It is after all a Gerald Genta design. You know, he designed the Pole Router, the Speedmaster with the lugs, the lyre lugs. Obviously, the Patek Nautilus and the Royal Oak, but it is a great design.
In fact back in the day Elvis wore a Midas and he loved it. He loved watches, and he gave watches to people for fun. He actually gave them watches with his name engraved on the bezel and that was their free entrance to any of his concerts or any of his events. But he wore a Midas, and he just liked it so much. Well, they're not waterproof, but he even went swimming with it. It's Elvis, you know?
THM: I do hear a lot of people talking about Rolex Midas right now, considering it is very rare since most of them have been melted. So what's left of the Midas?
Gregory: So I wouldn't say it's an underrated watch. But again, when it comes to Rolex, people are generally all about Paul Newman. So it's one of the newer ones that have entered the vintage watch market. My first vintage watch was a Rolex, actually - the Explorer 1016. But what's interesting about Rolex is really they just found their niche, and stayed there. The Submariner that they make today doesn't look that different than one that they made in the 1950s. That’s what they do what they do and they do it very well. Great movements, great finishing, and everything. They have a Cellini line which is very cool. They have different watches that they've made in the past. I mean, obviously, the Bubblebacks too are very popular, and a special kind of niche. They are fun to collect.
THM: Let’s talk about Rolex and the El-Primero movement?
Gregory: Most people know that when Rolex made their Daytona automatic chronograph, they went and they started using Zenith El Primero movements. For the first 10 or so years, all the movements in the Rolex Daytona were made by Zenith for Rolex. Movado, I was not aware. And so you say, well, if you want, you could have a real Zenith or you could have a Rolex branded Zenith. It's really up to you. Personally I don't see any quality difference at all. You know, they're both the same, but one is very different. Here is another fun fact. There are actual Zenith Italian DeLuca jewelers that made Zenith watches using the Daytona style. And they sold those watches with Zenith and El Primero, but they look like Daytonas. They're very hard to find. You can find them even in solid gold, but you can afford them. Most people can't afford a solid gold automatic Daytona now can they?
We've discussed this before, that Zenith is one of the few brands that's not known particularly for their watches, but more for their movement, which is very rare.
Very few brands are like that. So it's not like a Royal Oak, or it's not like a Nautilus. It's more like the El Primero movement. And to understand that you can get that in a Movato was very interesting. And if you like to be a unique individual, you could have three or four watches for the same price as the one watch that everybody else is wearing. Well, there's a premium for that, I think.
Well, there were some interesting beans spilled out there but stay tuned as we bring you some insights from Gregory’s vintage collection in the next episode!
Watch more here
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